Go smell the Sorry Flowers!
February 11th, 2008 by A/CThis week is going to be a busy one in the Land Down Under for everyone. We have the abolishment of Work Choice Laws, The Arguement continues with Japan and on Thursday Prime Minister Rudd will give “The Sorry Speech.” It is possible that Indigenous communities may not even attend, or send a representive to accept speech… Which seems silly since they have been ones calling for it for decades….
So what is this speech and what are we apologising for:
In an attempt at reconcilliation between the white community and the Aboriginal Communities, Aboriginees have been pushing for an official apology from our Government for past miss deeds, all the wrongs forced upon them and for Captain James Cook actually taking Australia, White Settlement, the loss of their native land, and the removal of half cast aboriginal Children from there family in attempt to intergrate them in white society….
I should say at this point the the Stolen Generation was from the mid 1950 through to the late ’70’s. Children with either white parent and living in Aboriginal communities where removed and placed in missions or with a white family to be educated and work…. A lot of these children were misstreated however a lot more received a good life and were taught skills which let function in white society…
PM Rudd has stated that he will be saying Sorry on behalf of the Australian People, however there will be no compenstion pay outs and the present Government will not be accepting any responsiblity for those deeds… Basically he will be saying sorry in the form of sorrow had the hardships forced upon them.
Several Aboriginal leaders are up in arms over this, as well as many none aboriginees, but for differrent reason. Aboriginal Leaders want the Government to accept responsiblity so litergation and compensation can begin (in some cases the lawyers as awaiting the speech to find loop holes) and a large number of the none Aboriginal community is saying ‘well I have nothing to apologise for’….. As in we are being expected to say sorry for being born in Australia, for our families coming here and for benefiting from making this country what it is….. It seems in someways to be an attempt to make us feel guilty for being Australian which is not going to happen... In order to reconcile our communities it seems to be dividing it further.
I see this both ways and it is a mine field….. I do feel sadness regarding the things of the past however I wasnt even born when most of it happened, most of what happened was done in a belief that it was in the best interest of the people involved….
The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Could this be another road into hell?
It could be case of be careful what you wish you might just get it…The speech is being released tomorrow, so we can all see what is being said on our behalf so watch those news reports it will either be a storm in a tea cup or the cause of many a sad day for the future….
Should America apologise for Columbus, should the French say sorry for the Normans etc or is it a bit to much to ask….
Should present day occupants of a country apologise for the deeds of the past, should we say sorry for taking over this country and what sort of can of worms would this open?After all we are all native of the country we are born in arent we?
The path to peace is rough and one needs to know the real intentions of parties involve.
issues need addressing if possible for all to reconcile and go on.
dialogue shouldn’t stop.
Interesting one. Never having been to Oz, I guess my opinion of things there are somewhat naive as my knowledge comes from the world media, in which I have very little faith to produce a balanced view of reality.
I understand it is the immigrant population that has developed the country and empathise with these people?s indignation at being forced to share what would (likely) not be there had they not worked at achieving the current status of Australia.
However, my understanding is that the Aborigines were oppressed by Cook and many, if not most (either tacitly or openly) who followed. From what I have seen in the world media, Aboriginal society in Oz is a maelstrom of drunkenness, drugs and crime, reinforced with laziness and little or no desire to progress.
I assume the views of many immigrant Australians, either first or subsequent generations, would be that to compensate monetarily will simply fuel the current issues of the Aborigines as they would p155 it up the wall, so to speak.
The fact that the Aborigines were invaded and repressed, surely can?t be denied? If the PM gives a speech apologizing for what has happened, however cleverly worded it might be, then a ?wrong? has clearly been done, and the Aborigines should have legal recourse.
This is not a unique situation. Compensation to Native American tribes of North America has been made, whether they are happy about the level of it or not is a side issue, it has happened. And many of these tribes have developed their land and businesses, prospering enormously as a direct result of this compensation.
Perhaps the Australian govt. should look at ways to compensate the Aborigines in more constructive ways than just throwing a cheque and land rights at them. A structured investment by the govt, properly managed, ensuring money is not squandered, but spent on what is deemed necessary to bring positive change and development to Aborigine society is how things could progress.
Well said David
And agree in part, the social issues which have been outlined in the media are wide ranging and a very tricky situation, part of the problem there was, the Austraian Government gave Land Rights to the Indigenious people of the land, like the native Americans they are tribal, some of the people after being given the land sold it, others wanted tribal law, and got it, and all them wanted to be left alone….
An Aboriginal council was set up and funded that failed…
Surely there comes a point when the people involved have to take responsiblity for themselves as well expecting help from those around them…
I feel it is time to say enough is enough, we want to sort it out, we want to help fix the problems and will do everything we can, but get over it, so we can work together on get on with it……
AC
I agree that at one point, the Aborigenes have to take responsibility for themselves if they want to get out of the pits and build a future.
Wrong has been done to them certainly, and as David rightly says, there is a need for compensation and constructive support by the Australian government, but the aborigenes must be willing to put in the effort to develop and prosper.
Chook, could you maybe provide the link to the first post you made on the issue over Christmas, so new visitors have more background?
Hi ya C
I am going to see where this takes us and then if it blows up in our faces do a linked post through various articles, I am trying to keep them separate so as not to bias any thoughts…. but I did think about it…. and if it goes they way I think then all links will follow….
AC
Wow David, excellent point. I like your ideas about helping them in a way that’s constructive.
I don’t know much about this situation, but there does come a time when you have to stop playing the “blame game”.
But what are things like now? Can the Aborigines leave the Reservations and live anywhere they want to? Is race (might not be the right word) still a big issue? Is discrimination of Aborigines something that’s happening openly?
I don’t know… I have a hard enough time following local politics… let alone international stuff.
G’Day Jillian
We dont have reservations here like the Native Americans…
They can go anywhere they want, they do have tribal lands which are respected for the most part and townships which are 99% Aboriginal, then there is the torres strait Islands, people with aboriginal or Torres Strait parents or Grandparents recieve through the schools special funding where by everything is paid for, the kids are given special treatment because of their cultural differences even if they have been raised in the city, most Australians really dont give a bugger where you are from so long as you have a go and do the job, and many peoplework alongside indigineous and none indeginous alike without a hassle… I guess there is in some areas discrimination against them but in the towns it accurs in, it seems to more based on experience that racially motivated, Aboriginals can go to school, university study, and so anything else they want it does however appear to be harder for them, but more from a cultural point than a discriminatory one….
hope that helps
AC
Aussie, thanks. That helps a lot.
I think that’s a pretty good overview of things, actually. I just didn’t have any knowledge of their current “situation”.
Oo I don’t know, see I ave been to Oztralia I ave.
Them Asbos wot are causin all this trouble cos they’ve got the best drugs an won’t share em, its just the same in England, an they’re that rich they don’t even work.
Selfish that lot are.
shhhhhh sont let the secret out Elton, we have rioting in the streets again….lol…..
Kings Cross, Sydney, wasnt it, AC? All that trouble.
Hi there DD
In kings cross, redfern, the northern territory town, the islands etc…. Kings Cross was not as bad as Redfern..
I truly beleive that it shouldn’t be up to our generation to aplogise as most of us were either to little to know what was happening or wasn’t even born. The ones who need to apologise are the ones who done it - I know our government did it but not the current one. Someone who was in the government when it all happened should be the one to stand up and apologise!
Mmmm, I think the problem with an apology today is that we are living in an increasingly litigative society. Mention an apology and people automatically hold out their hands.
Although not on the same scale as what is happening in Oz, Britain recently apologised/pardoned First World War soldiers shot for ‘cowardice’. I don’t think any of the families were compensated.
Tony Blair also admitted deep sorrow (he stopped short of apologising) at Britains participation in the slave trade. I don’t think anyone is due to be compensated for that.
Regarding the actual apology, I understand that the younger generations may feel agrieved as they had nothing to do with said ‘crimes’ but come off it, is it really worth getting on the moral high ground? What’s that going to achieve?
Apologise as a ‘nation’ not as a ‘generation’ (that sounds like a really bad rap song) and move on to a place where both parties can work together.
You said: “It could be case of be careful what you wish you might just get it?The speech is being released tomorrow, so we can all see what is being said on our behalf” … however the Government is not apologising “on our behalf”! They are apologising on behalf of previous governments and their bad policies. Individuals, on the other hand, have the choice to express regret at what happened by saying sorry *if they wish to do so*.
Also, to kellie: the practise of removing Aboriginal children from their families purely because of their race went on right up until the early 1970’s. So to say that “most of us were either to little to know what was happening or wasn?t even born” isn’t true … unless the majority of the population is under the age of about 35 (which it isn’t). I agree with Lib above: we should apologise as a nation, not as a generation, so we can move on as a nation
It seems there’s a lot of incorrect information going around. Please take a look at ANTaR’s website so you know what the real facts are: http://www.antar.org.au/sorry. Then we can have a real debate about this when everyone is properly informed
the information going around at the moment is very scetchy however when Rudd releases the speech wording later today we may have a better idea as to what is being said…..
It is looking as if tribal leaders are arriving in Canberra so that looks promising….
Early reports are saying that Rudd is going to be primarily saying sorry for the stolen Generation…. so that should put an interesting spin on things…… we will see where this takes us……
The important word that has been the cause of the arguement is “SORRY” no government has wanted to say the word for fear of lawsuits, and admission of guilt….
AC
Yes, he is saying sorry specifically to the Stolen Generations and their families, rather than to every Aboriginal person. It’s one step closer to reconciliation
G’Day Prscilla and welcome to GSTF
Some of the issues around this subject are very sad indeed, and something needs to be done….
However I am not sure this is going to do it, people are expecting for the OK we said we are sorry thats that then no get on with it… I think that is certainly not going to happen…. my fear is that it will divide the community and not unite it as is the intention……
AC
I completely agree with you. I don’t think life is going to be happy-clappy after the apology either. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it’s a start in the right direction. You’re right - the community will still be divided because these matters are complex and will take a long time to reach agreement on. I’m not even sure that Reconciliation will be achieved in our lifetime. But if we are defeatist and don’t try to make little victories toward that goal then we don’t really have anything worth passing on to future generations, so from that perspective I think the apology tomorrow is a positive start.
It may be postive and I truly hope it is….
however from what I am hearing is lawsuit lawsuit and lawsuit, if there is one word of place on this speech then we are going to be in the courts before you can say bugger me….
Those who have been calling for the apology are not the ones who are calling the solicitors…
Every journey begins with a single step and hopefully this will lead to right path…
AC
A difficult conundrum.
I don’t know the ins and outs of Aussie history, native American history, Eskimos, etc.
But for what its worth here’s my two peneth.
Would you put a child in prison because his father robbed a bank and killed three people but died straight after? Would you punish the child for the sins of the father? Probably not.
Do we still think after all this time that the whites are really repressing the native population? I didn’t see too much of it when I was there. However what needs to be really looked at is why there is this tendency to alcohol abuse/dependence and worse, the petrol sniffing that is rampant. This has to be one of the primary reasons they are disaffected, leading to poor environment, low attainment and low employment options.
Throwing money/wealth at anything doesn’t tend to gleen long term results. It is merely papering over the cracks.
An apology would be OK but to me I don’t see the point of it as the guys who did this are long dead. A better way forward would be to address the long term educational needs and find a sympathetic policing and rehabilitation policy for those that are stuck in to the booze and petrol. I’m not really qualified to propose something here but I think many lessons could be taken from the work done on heroin and crack addiction in the 80’s and 90’s, most of the communities where addiction was rampant had low esteem and poor attainment but the neighborhoods where also run down. Improving the general environment was one great solution, employing the local residents on a meaningful wage to actually do the improvement work lead to pride in their neighborhoods which in turn led to improved educational attainment through better discipline.
I tend to think along much the same lines GIC
I find the tribal elders who are trying to stop the abuse among their people a huge step forward, and yes something needs to done…. some of the communities are now dry no alcohol allowed so they are going out of town buying the grog and getting plastered outside the town limits…… I think getting the people involved has to be the way to go they can then have a renewed sense of pride in acheivment..
AC
WAY over my head guy but I’ve learnt lots, thanks.